Legislature(2013 - 2014)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/19/2013 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB16 | |
| SB38 | |
| SB23 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 23 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 16 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 38 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 23-AIDEA: LNG PROJECT; DIVIDENDS; FINANCING
1:39:05 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY announced the consideration of SB 23.
1:39:43 PM
GENE THERRIAULT, Deputy Director, Statewide Energy Policy
Development, Alaska Energy Authority, Department of Commerce,
Community and Economic Development (DCCED), introduced himself.
NICK SZYMONIAK, Project Economist, Alaska Energy Authority,
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development
(DCCED), introduced himself.
1:40:25 PM
At ease
1:46:30 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY reconvened the meeting and recognized that
Representatives Tammie Wilson and Steve Thompson were in the
audience.
1:46:59 PM
MR. THERRIAULT said that AEA's perspective of the intent of SB
23 is to provide the lowest cost energy to as many Interior
Alaska consumers as possible, to get gas to the Interior as
quickly as possible, and to attract as much private sector
investment as possible.
The project description is to liquefy North Slope natural gas
and truck it to Fairbanks for use in the greater Fairbanks/North
Pole area. The LNG will be temporarily stored in the community
and then regasified and distributed for use. The idea is that
the initial demand will underpin the investment in the
infrastructure. In time, communities outside the Fairbanks North
Star Borough and along the river system could potentially access
the resource as well.
MR. THERRIAULT displayed a schematic of the LNG trucking value
chain to illustrate the infrastructure that AEA envisions being
supported by SB 23.
1:48:57 PM
MR. THERRIAULT explained that the governor's finance package
includes a $50 million general fund grant to the Alaska
Industrial Development and Export Authority (AIDEA) to support a
potential equity position in the infrastructure; $150 million in
bonds; and $125 million SETS capitalization. He explained that
the sustainable energy transmission and supply (SETS)
development fund was put in place last year and endowed with
$125 million. The governor did not want to utilize all of that
funding this year so he added an additional $125 million
capitalization. This brings the total for legislative
consideration to $325 million.
The package also includes the possible use of $30 million in
natural gas storage credit. This comes from legislation that
passed last year that offers dollar-for-dollar assistance on
infrastructure up to $30 million. Two storage tanks are
envisioned, thus the potential $30 million. This brings the
total package to $355 million.
1:51:37 PM
MR. THERRIAULT explained that AIDEA was working on a business
plan to attract private sector players/consumers to avail
themselves of these loan dollars. They will enter into a
business agreement with AIDEA and be obligated to repay the
loans. He opined that this was where the Interior residents
would step up and shoulder a good deal of the burden.
1:52:24 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY recognized that Senator Kelly had joined the
committee.
1:52:51 PM
MR. SZYMONIAK displayed a model of one of the proposals for a
project configuration that AEA believes presents a realistic
base cost estimate to use. The key assumptions are for a 9 Bcf
LNG plant that is bifurcated into two 4.5 Bcf sections for
industrial and utility use, and the $50 million general fund
grant will be applied to the 4.5 Bcf utility section. The regas,
storage, and distribution costs are presented as a high-cost and
low-cost scenario. [The expected utility price per Mcf is as
follows: wholesale LNG - $10.33; natural gas to home - $13.49 to
$17.29; and delivered price of $1.80 to $2.31 per gallon of fuel
oil.]
MR. SZYMONIAK said the assumption in this model is for $3.50
natural gas, $1.50 for the liquefaction plant and $4.00 for
trucking. The low cost estimate for regas, storage, and
distribution is $3.49 per million Btu and at the high end it's
$17.29. He pointed out that the current $4.00 cost for fuel oil
is roughly equivalent to $30 per Mcf of gas.
1:54:58 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE noted that he said $3.50 instead of $13.49.
MR. SZMONIAK clarified that $3.50 was the North Slope commodity
price. The expected price of natural gas delivered to the home
is $13.49 to $17.29.
SENATOR STEDMAN noted that there was an amendment coming to
address the bill's geographic considerations. He then expressed
interest in receiving a summary chart of energy equivalents to
compare costs across the state. He said probably 80 percent of
his constituents heat with oil, which is about $4.00 per gallon,
and their hydro charges are about $0.12 per kilowatt.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY agreed that a statewide comparative would be
beneficial.
1:57:39 PM
MR. THERRIAULT displayed a chart depicting the project timeline
and milestones for 2013 through 2015. He explained that AIDEA
solicited letters of interest and 16 proposals came back, two of
which were turnkey offers. The technical offers are being
evaluated and if neither is reasonable to advance, AIDEA will
look at whether it can put together its own project. He
reiterated that the intent is to structure a business deal,
leveraging the state's offer to share in the risk of the
infrastructure, utilizing the financing offered by the state,
but also attracting private sector investment into the
infrastructure to try to achieve the target goal of $15 gas
delivered to residential users.
1:59:16 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN suggested adding the Anchorage Bowl to the chart
because of the large amount of natural gas usage in that area.
He then pointed out that the people living in the areas of
Alaska that don't have natural gas can't relate to the Y axis of
the chart that shows the cost per Mcf of gas. He said if it's
put in oil terms it's about $2.25 per gallon of fuel oil. He
continued that as a policy, getting down to $2.00 to $2.50 oil
equivalent would make great strides in solving the energy
challenges around the state, regardless of the energy source.
SENATOR OLSON asked what the LNG plant was projected to cost.
MR. THERRIAULT answered that it's $200 million or less. The
estimate from Golden Valley was about $220 million with the
associated storage on both the North Slope and the Interior,
whereas the proposal from Fairbanks Natural Gas was somewhat
less, in part because of their view on storage needs. He noted
that AIDEA recently hired an independent engineering consultant
to help evaluate the different proposals and perhaps reduce the
costs.
2:01:46 PM
SENATOR OLSON asked how this proposal expects to mesh with the
proposed bullet line.
MR. THERRIAULT responded that AEA/AIDEA believes that this
infrastructure will enhance a bullet line by growing demand so
that once a pipeline is built there will be a larger volume to
plug into that pipe. This will have a positive impact on the net
present value calculations on the pipeline. A pipeline is
probably a number of years away so it will allow amortization of
the plant to take place. AEA/AIDEA further believes that the
components of the infrastructure will have longer term use even
if the community switches to using gas from the pipeline.
2:04:35 PM
SENATOR OLSON asked when the trucks would begin to haul gas from
the North Slope to the Fairbanks area.
MR. THERRIAULT said the current estimate is the last quarter of
2015.
SENATOR OLSON asked who will own and what will happen to the
$220 million plant on the North Slope once a pipeline is built.
MR. THERRIAULT explained that the business consortium that comes
together will own the assets, and the state will have an equity
stake in that infrastructure. He added that demand for LNG as a
liquid fuel is likely to grow within the state and it's the
governor's vision that utilization of that energy source will
spread across the Interior, beyond the core Fairbanks North Star
Borough area. If a pipeline goes down the Parks Highway there
still will be communities on the Richardson and Alaska highways
that would be interested in accessing liquid natural gas. There
is also hope that the infrastructure will develop to deliver LNG
to villages on the river systems and help industrial mine
development.
SENATOR ELLIS cautioned the committee to remember the epic
failure of the Healy Clean Coal project and the lessons that
were learned. He asked the presenters to speak to how those
lessons might be applied to this project.
2:10:38 PM
MR. THERRIAULT said the difference here is that the
infrastructure for this project won't come into being unless the
customers are part of the overall business deal. This will be
more of a negotiated business deal with more private sector
investment and comparatively less outlay of state dollars.
SENATOR ELLIS said he appreciates Mr. Therriault's response and
perspective, but he still feels burned by that experience. He
expressed a desire to hear from other agencies of government
when the chair could accommodate it in the context of SB 23. He
said he was sympathetic toward the needs of the Interior and was
willing to think about the merits of the proposal. He opined
that having more private sector investment was one to avoid
speculative government-driven mega projects. He reiterated his
desire to hear more from the other agencies of government.
2:13:16 PM
SENATOR OLSON asked if the North Slope Borough had taken a
position on the project.
MR. THERRIAULT responded that he wasn't aware of specific input
from the borough, but the Arctic Slope Regional Corporation
(ASRC) and other entities on the North Slope had expressed
interest in taking part in the enterprise.
SENATOR OLSON said he found it odd that the government entity
wasn't contacted when the plant would be on borough property.
MR. THERRIAULT acknowledged that the plant would be within the
borough's jurisdiction and that the project would have to
fulfill the permitting requirements of the local government.
2:14:30 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN suggested adding Haines and Prince of Wales to
the requested summary of statewide energy costs. Their cost of
electricity from hydro is roughly $0.23 per kilowatt and oil is
about $4.00. He reiterated that $2.50 equivalent oil statewide
would be a great target. He noted that a couple of mines were
opening on Prince of Wales and one might bring in LNG to fuel
the turbines. He added that he wanted the public to understand
the magnitude of what the committee was talking about because
$2.50 equivalent oil is huge.
MR. THERRIAULT agreed to work on developing the comparative
numbers, and added that the administration realizes that once
the product is available at a reasonable price, enterprises
statewide will look at ways to utilize it. He noted that Senator
Stedman's constituency, Alaska Power and Telephone, expressed
interest in the product for their operation in Tok and as far
south as Skagway.
2:17:33 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE pointed out that this is a very small plant
with very limited capacity so there will not be excess LNG
available with any kind of build-out from Fairbanks. He said
he'd discuss this further when he presents the amendment as far
as looking at other options that will help in other locations
with large quantities.
SENATOR STEDMAN clarified that the equivalency to $2.50 oil
didn't have to be from natural gas. It might be geothermal in
one area, hydro in another, and LNG on the North Slope and
Fairbanks area.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY remarked that the goal of the special committee
on energy was to look at those issues.
2:19:00 PM
TED LEONARD, Executive Director, Alaska Industrial Development
and Export Authority, Department of Commerce, Community and
Economic Development, Anchorage, Alaska introduced himself.
MARK DAVIS, Deputy Director, Alaska Industrial Development and
Export Authority, Department of Commerce, Community and Economic
Development, Anchorage, Alaska, introduced himself.
2:19:32 PM
SENATOR OLSON asked if AIDEA had any experience with an LNG
project.
MR. LEONARD said this will be the first time for an LNG plant,
but AIDEA does have expertise putting together project deals and
knows where in the private sector to get the expertise needed to
bring this project together. With regard to the question about
involving the Fairbanks North Slope Borough, he explained that
AIDEA understands it is a mandate from the legislature to work
with local governments to ensure that they benefit from any
projects AIDEA is involved in within their jurisdiction.
SENATOR OLSON questioned how AIDEA could substantiate the
estimated costs without any experience in the area. He mentioned
the prison in the Mat-Su area and the Healy Clean Coal project
as examples of state projects that wasted money and didn't go
anywhere. He said he understands that people in the area need
energy relief, but plus or minus 30 percent of $220 million
represents a lot of risk.
2:23:42 PM
MR. LEONARD confirmed that AIDEA learned lessons from the Healy
project and was heeding them on this project. He said that by
the time the new AIDEA board is ready to approve loans or issue
bonds, the estimate won't be plus 30 percent. He explained that
AIDEA is bringing in a team to go through the project phases and
to look at the business, finance, and operational plans. He
mentioned that HDR Engineering and Northern Economics were team
members. The latter would be looking at the demand for the plant
after a pipeline comes in to ensure repayment of the loan and
bonds. The process that AIDEA is going through is typical of
what any investment banker would go through to verify that the
investment is good.
2:27:29 PM
SENATOR OLSON asked if the size of the plant was established.
MR. LEONARD replied that the turnkey proposals are for a 9 Bcf
plant with the capacity to move from 4 Bcf to 20 Bcf. Initially,
the plant will be built to ensure that it has the capacity
that's needed and that there's demand to buy the capacity so
there is cash flow to pay off the financing.
SENATOR OLSON asked if he agreed with Senator Micciche that even
at 20 Bcf there would not be an excess.
MR. LEONARD responded that 20 Bcf would be the full build-out
for the Fairbanks area. Once the pipeline comes in, that
capacity will be moved and AEA will be looking at where that
capacity can be used. He agreed with Mr. Therriault that this
project is not a substitute or in competition with the pipeline.
SENATOR STEDMAN cautioned that the legislature wants to know
when problems develop with public projects, not read about them
first in the paper.
MR. LEONARD said he and the current board were in complete
agreement on that. The request encapsulated in the bill
demonstrates that AIDEA is going through the appropriate process
of asking and keeping the legislature informed.
2:32:21 PM
At ease
2:35:59 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY reconvened the meeting and opened public
testimony.
2:36:03 PM
AL HAYNES, representing himself, Mat-Su Valley, informed the
committee that he operates seven Subways in the Mat-Su Valley
and nine in the Fairbanks area, three of which have the
utilities included in the rent. The monthly utility costs for
the Fairbanks stores are about double what they are for the Mat-
Su Valley stores; the former is about $19,000 a month and the
latter about $10,000 a month.
2:37:08 PM
GEORGE BERRY, representing himself, Fairbanks, Alaska, said it
was 40 years ago that he first heard about gas coming to
Fairbanks and the community was still waiting. He encouraged the
committee to look at the fine details and move the project ahead
sooner rather than later. He pointed out that all Interior
residents needed lower cost space heating, and that high energy
costs affected everyone in the state.
2:39:42 PM
WILLIAM ST. PIERRE, representing himself, Fairbanks, Alaska,
testified in support of SB 23. He said he had owned and operated
many local businesses in the last 30 years, and the high cost of
energy was causing serious damage to the local economy.
2:41:15 PM
LISA HERBERT, Executive Director, Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce,
testified in support of SB 23. She said the Chamber identified
reducing energy costs as a top priority this legislative
session, because the high cost of space heating and electricity
is driving away businesses. She noted that the chamber submitted
written testimony stating support for the governor's three-prong
approach of providing: low-interest, long-term loans; gas
storage tax credits; and general fund dollars to build out and
supply a natural gas infrastructure for Interior and rural
Alaska. Trucking natural gas from the North Slope is a near-term
immediate solution, and SB 23 is the vehicle to achieve the
stated goal of $15 per MMBtu, she said.
2:43:05 PM
HANK BARTOS, representing himself, Fairbanks, Alaska, testified
in support of SB 23. He said the governor's plan is similar to
the plan that the Lowell Group developed and posted on the
GasIn2Years.com website. He reminded listeners that trucking gas
to Fairbanks was a bridge project that would not only address
high energy costs but also the air quality problems caused by so
many people heating their homes with wood.
2:45:04 PM
TIM GUNDERSON, Teamsters Training Center, Fairbanks, Alaska,
testified in support of SB 23. He said a side benefit of
trucking gas to Fairbanks is that the infrastructure will
continue to be used whether the pipeline materializes or not. A
side benefit for the Bush is that residents will likely have
access to propane.
2:47:44 PM
BOB SHEFCHIN, Chair, Energy Committee, Fairbanks Chamber of
Commerce and Chair, Interior Gas Utility Board, Fairbanks,
Alaska, testified in support of SB 23. He said the high cost of
energy is killing residents and businesses throughout the
Interior and SB 23 will provide AIDEA/AEA the tools to leverage
state funding to solve this problem. He highlighted Mr.
Szymoniak's skill as a modeler and expressed appreciation for
the level of expertise that the state is applying to the
problem.
2:49:03 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY recognized that Senator Bishop had joined the
committee.
2:49:18 PM
ROGER BURGGRAF, Natural Resources Committee, Fairbanks Chamber
of Commerce, Fairbanks, Alaska, testified in support of SB 23.
He said he had been a resident for 54 years and had seen the
Interior and Fairbanks go through many ups and downs, but it was
in crisis right now. The trucking proposal is a short-term
remedy to supply LNG in two years as opposed to waiting eight or
more years for a pipeline. LNG will help businesses and
residents and hopefully supply propane to villages and rural
areas. He emphasized the need for an energy infrastructure for
all of Alaska and pointed out that LNG plants can be moved,
which will help the Railbelt, villages along the Yukon, and
Interior mines.
2:52:10 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY recognized that Senator Coghill had joined the
committee.
2:52:25 PM
LUKE HOPKINS, Mayor, Fairbanks North Star Borough, testified in
support of SB 23. He said this project has the goal of providing
the lowest cost gas to the most customers as soon as possible.
He urged the committee to pass the bill to move legislative
authority to AIDEA for financing this project. It is the first
step to improve the borough's economic wellbeing and to
strengthen the state's economic position.
JERRY CLEWORTH, Mayor, Fairbanks, Alaska, testified in support
of SB 23. He said this temporary fix may not be so temporary,
because it's uncertain when the gas pipeline will come. It will
also provide villages the opportunity to access propane more
cheaply.
2:55:25 PM
BRYCE WARD, Mayor, North Pole echoed Mayor Cleworth's testimony.
He said it's important to recognize the impact this project
could have on the state as a whole and the northern half in
particular. If energy costs go down in Fairbanks, there will be
a trickledown affect out to other communities. An important
component of this project is that propane will be available to
villages along the river. This project will build demand for gas
so that when the pipeline does come through there will be a
distribution network in place to handle the gas.
MIKE YOUNG, representing himself, Fairbanks, Alaska, testified
in support of SB 23. He said that trucking LNG is vitally
important to Interior Alaskans for residential and industrial
uses. He pointed out that being able to provide less expensive
energy to villages on the river system will be a net positive to
the state treasury because the power cost equalization
appropriation will be less.
2:59:52 PM
At ease
3:00:21 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY stated that he would hold SB 23 in committee and
finish taking public testimony on Thursday.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB16 Senate LC Follow up 021113.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 16 |
| SB23_Letter of Support.msg |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23 support letter.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23 support letter 2.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23 support letters 3.PDF |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23 support letters 4.PDF |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23_AEA Slide Pack.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB 23 Support letter 5.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23 Support Letter 6.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23 amendment 1.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |
| SB23_Amendment 2.pdf |
SL&C 2/19/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 23 |